Better Frame Vs Better Gears, Which Should You Choose? | The GCN Tech Show Ep. 20
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Better Frame Vs Better Gears, Which Should You Choose? | The GCN Tech Show Ep. 20

October 8, 2019

(mechanical whooshes with chime) – Hello, and welcome to the GTN tech show. – This week we’ve got
new bikes, new saddles, and a giant water bottle cage. – Yeah, and we’re also
tackling that age old question; should you buy a better
frame with worse components, or a worse frame with better components? (up-tempo energetic music) – Right then, what is hot in
the world of tech this week? – Well, first up, Rapha have just launched a new range of saddles which marks their first venture into hardware. Come in two shapes, the
Classic and the Pro Team. The Classic is solid, whereas the Pro Team is not liquid, it is actually solid, or you can get one with a cutaway. – Yeah, and they come in two
different widths as well. So, one 30 mm wide, and one 45 mm wide. – Apparently, they’re made in Italy by a southern manufacturer
of long standing. Prices are £180 for the Classic
and 295 for the Pro Team, which is lighter courtesy
of its carbon base, but they do both have
one-piece carbon rails. – They do, and now one
thing that is probably worth mentioning is that Rapha say they’re designed to complement
their cycling shorts. They’ve been designed in tandem with complementary differing
densities of foam padding. So, they get, also about
those carbon rails, Emma, perhaps we just add in for people who fall into the same trap as me, just remember, you’ve done the same, too, ‘ave ye, carbon rails of saddles
have different diameters to metal ones so you need to check your seat post compatibility as well. It can be very annoying if you caught up and also very expensive. Right, from saddles to bikes,
now after Paris Roubaix, Jon and I mentioned
how cool we thought the limited edition paint jobs
were for the Factor 02 bikes of AG2R La Mondiale riders, Oliver Naesen and Sylvan Dillier. Turns out, Factor had
just started selling them, limited edition ones. – Now, something a little bit different, but also utterly jaw dropping
is the new Speedvagen. It’s the 650B version
of their rugged road. And, I actually, I don’t even
know where to start with this. It’s got steel, custom options, I mean even the mud guards are beautiful. It is fantastic. – It is, and I don’t think
I’ve ever wanted mud guards quite as much as these ones on this bike. The one custom option that (clears throat) I’m not too keen on, Emma, is the custom painted frame pump. – [Emma] I think it’s beautiful. – [Simon] Well, yeah, but it’s– – [Emma] It’s really cool. – [Simon] It’s a frame
pump, I’ve always told them they’re not frame pumps. – Well, maybe you should
accept that at some times, how things look is more
important than your principles. – (laughs) Well, fair enough, fair enough. Right, and now before we
leave our first bit of tech, the last bit for this
section is this new giant water bottle cage for all
budding adventurers out there. So, I saw this over on
the right of this website. It’s from wide foot
designs, and basically, rather than being designed
around traditional bike water bottle, it’s designed around this
liter Nalgene bottles and so forth, so basically, it still fits on your normal bottle boxes, but it allows you to
carry a load more water. – Probably has quite a wide neck as well, it would be easier to fill up from streams and fountains and things. – That’s right, for proper
adventuring, streams. – (laughing) Right, more
tech later in the show. (mechanical whooshes with chime) Should you invest in a good
frame or better components? It’s an age old decision. Putting more of your
budget into the frame, bearing in mind that you
can and probably will upgrade the components over
time to upgrade the bike, or buy the very best components you can at the expense of the frame. – Yeah, now we get asked
this question quite a lot, but it’s front of mine
because we had a question from a lad called Matt
Taylor over on Instagram, and he was wondering whether he should buy an Orbea M20, which has
Shimano Ultegra groupset, or for the same price,
an Orbea Orca M30-Pro, which has a slightly higher
grade of carbon fiber in their frameset, but at
the expense of the groupset, which is now Shimano 105. So, should he get the better frameset, and then upgrade the
components at a later date? – Well, let’s try to
work it out, shall we? I mean, each purchase obviously subject to individual choice and
the rider preferences, but we do think that there
are some golden rules. – That’s right, first thing
we should probably answer, is does a frame make that much difference, and the answer is probably yes, actually. Certainly at some points, yeah, and what we’re thinking now
is about that price point where people are making
the decision between going from an aluminium
frame to a carbon frame, and in this case, often, but not always, you’ll save quite a bit of
weight by going into carbon, maybe up to half a kilo,
and often, but not always, the frame will be more
comfortable and stiffer as well. – On the flip side, will your more expensive gears perform better? Hmm, it’s unlikely. However, it is worth
considering that you get bigger jumps in performance
at lower price points, so from Sora to Tiagra,
and from Tiagra to 105. – Yeah, that’s right, so we think that at lower price points,
you should prioritize the overall package
instead of just the frame, ’cause another thing you need
to bear in mind, actually, is that often those groups,
so not upwards compatible, ’cause they’ve actually got a different number of gears, so Sora’s
nine, Tiagra is 10, 105 is 11. I mean, that is you do want to upgrade, you have to upgrade the
whole lot all at once. – Well, that sounds like
he’s answered it, really, but maybe not that simple,
because with better groupsets also come better wheels,
handle bars, stems, saddle, and they might not make
that much difference individually, but when you add
it all together collectively, that could add, maybe,
half a kilo at least, – Yeah. – which would offset your better frame, and also bear in mind that to upgrade all those components would cost more than just buying a better model to start with. – That’s right, I see, yeah,
you gotta say, haven’t you, that upgrading your bike
piece by piece over time, is definitely not the
cheap way of doing it, but having said that, it can
be very enjoyable, can’t it? So, if you think that saving
up and then researching where to invest your hard earned money, and then doing so piece by
piece is gonna float your boat, then go for it! – You can learn a lot as
well, it’s very educational. I wish I had learned to build up a bike. – [Simon] That is true, yeah,
you do learn an awful lot, I tell ya, by doing that. – OK, so we think less expensive bikes, go for the components. – Yup. – More expensive bikes, at
about the carbon tipping point, go for the frame. – Yup. – And then, more expensive bikes again, go for the components. – Yeah, although, couple of carefuls, bear in mind, that
actually, the fit of bikes can change and go up through the range, so not always, but
again, in some instances, so these Orbeas that we
talked about in the beginning, actually the M30-Pro, which
has the higher quality carbon frame but the
cheaper components on it, actually has a more aggressive
and kind of racy fit to it. So, certainly in my case,
that’ll be the one I’d go for. – And secondly, sometimes
you’ve just to go with your heart. – True. – And, if you like the look
of a frame and it fits you, then you’ll probably overlook
any of its shortcomings. – That is a very good
point, and in the case of those Orbeas, I’m
torn on it ’cause I love the tangerine color of the M20. – [Emma] Really? – Yeah, I do, although with the M30-Pro, you can customize it. So, anyway–
– Well, you can– – Ah, we can talk about this for hours. Let us know what you think about this because obviously you guys
will definitely have some strong opinions, we’re sure of that, so in the comments section down below, get stuck in what do you
prioritize, frame or components? Emma, what’s your personal take on that, what are you feeling? – For me, fit is very limiting, so I’ve always had to go for, it is normally not got a
huge range of bike frames I could choose from, and then for me, components are extremely important ’cause they happen to do with hand size and being able to hold on to the hood. Some of the lower range
components from some groupsets, the hoods are ginormous, I can’t hold on to them properly, so– – Yeah, very very good point, actually. For me, I have a real
love of aluminium bikes, not to say that I love
all aluminium bikes, but I certainly wouldn’t be swayed always to go for the carbon option
– No, no. – at higher price points, so particularly with cyclo-cross bikes. – Yeah, I think that
some people would assume that carbon is always better,
and it’s not quite true. I mean, there’s pretty
rubbish carbon out there, just as there’s very good
carbon frames out there as well. – Exactly, so do make
sure that you analyze each purchase individually,
but the golden rules are definitely there. (mechanical whooshes and chime) Back to some more new tech now, starting with vicious rumors. – Yes, Dutch newspaper De
Limburger reported that team Sunweb might be changing
from Giant to Cervelo. Meanwhile, Giant might be
going to team Lotto Jumbo, which is good for Jon,
’cause it potentially avoids that somewhat uncomfortable
celeste green-yellow combo. – That is true, although as much as I like celeste green, Emma, I gotta say that that celeste green-yellow
combination is probably uncomfortable for everyone out there– – Yeah. – as well as Cannings. Right, meanwhile,
Bianchi fans, don’t worry ’cause they are rumored
to be off to UA Emirates, meaning that Dimension Data,
unless Cervelo is prone to two teams, will be in
need of a new bike partner, but Colnago will be
going spare, so anyway, watch this space whilst
none of it happens, clearly. – Right, last week we reported on Limar’s newest helmet, the Air Master, and just after we’re done that show, team Astana showed up on
the flanks of Mount Etna wearing yes, a new, another
new Limar helmet, the Air Pro. – [Simon] That’s right, now
perhaps an update to the classic Limar Ultra Light, which
we all remember, don’t we? – [Emma] Uh, no. – They claim that it’s 20% more efficient, presumably aerodynamically,
than the Ultra Light. Still got 20 vents to it and they’ve also incorporated some carbon wings on there, a little bit like that Met Trenta that we unboxed a few weeks ago. Now, the weight for a
size medium is 230 grams, which is not Ultra Light’s,
that one was 187 grams for a size large, I believe,
but anyway, nevertheless, 230 grams is still pretty light. – Yeah, that is pretty light. Anyway, from heads to
feet now, Thibaut Pinot has been spotted sporting
some custom Giro factor tech laced shoes, and these are the ultra light version at 210 grams. – Yeah, that’s quite a feather, isn’t it? Can I say, Emma, for
the record, that I think Thibaut Pinot is just cool. Like I don’t know what it is about him– – You can say that. – Thanks, like his style
on a bike is just cool, and even the Groupama-FDJ
kit which makes all of the team look like they’re
racing in a white gilet, I think he just looks cool. – [Emma] I guess that’s
just French style for you. – [Simon] Yeah. – Now, speaking of style,
this is a bit of an odd one, but streetwear brand,
Palace, have teamed up with Oakley M frames in a collaboration. It’s very retro and very cool. – Yeah, I think that’s quite cool. Lucy’s slightly, slightly scared Emma, because M frames, I remember quite vividly from the first time around
and now they’re coming back as retro, which I guess happens to us all, eventually, that– – [Emma] I guess I’m lucky
that I didn’t ride as a child and why I don’t remember that– – Yeah, no, I was a
child, I was just a kid, just a slip of a lad. A bit like bumbags,
which are now cool again. I remember those first time as well. – What, bumbags are not cool, no way. – Emma, watch this space, fanny packs. – What, who am I to judge,
I know nothing about– – Fanny packs are back. – Oh dear. – Yeah, trust me at some point, I’m sure you’ll have a fanny pack. – I have a running waist belt. – Ha, that’s a fanny pack. You’ve already got one.
– It’s not a fanny pack. It’s not even a bumbag,
it’s nowhere near my bum. – You didn’t even know
– It’s waist. – that you were that cool, but you are. – He says fanny packs are cool
– You’re running with a fanny pack on.
– They’re very practical for carrying keys in bum world. – See, that’s why people
will start wearing them in the fist place. Steezy, that’s what it is. – What’s steezy? – Style with ease. – Oh, (laughs) odd. (mechanical whooshes and chime) OK, it is Wall of Fame time now. – That’s right, this week,
well as always, it’s a big one. Potentially, as revolutionary as anything we featured so far. – I think it is the most revolutionary. – Really? – Yep, it is the first ever, ever, lycra cycling short invented
by one Toni Maier of Assos. – That’s right, very interesting
back story to this one. So, back in the ’70s,
Maier became convinced of the importance of
aerodynamics in cycling, and so he actually
plowed considerable sums of his own money into
developing an aero bike. However, he became quite
upset when they actually got around to aerodynamically
testing said bike, because they realized that as
soon as they stuck a rider on, any improvements kind
of went out the window. – Yeah, so he set about trying to make the rider more aerodynamic, and one of the things he realized was that the wooden clothing was
really slowing the rider down. So, he used the new space
age fabrics that were, been used in skiing and set
about making a cycling short. He got in touch with
Dupont, who were the owners of the lycra brand in the
USA, and away he went. – Yeah, in 1976, the
first shorts were made, and then by 1977, most of
the professional person were begging, borrowing, I’ll refrain from saying stealing, certainly buying their
own Assos cycling shorts. And so that was it, the
era of wool gradually disappeared and we soon
became defined by this very shiny, very skin tight lycra. It’s weird thought, actually, isn’t it? – Yeah, I have to say
that, more to happy, that some of Maier’s more bizarre
inventions didn’t take on. For example, he invented an aero harness to strap the rider into an
aero position on the bike, which sounds incredibly uncomfortable. – It does, doesn’t it, hats off to the UCI for banning that one. There aren’t many things you
can say it’s good to ban, but I think the aero strap,
probably one of them. – Yeah, sounds very unpleasant. – Yeah, anyway, we salute Toni Maier, inventor of the lycra cycling short. (mechanical whooshes and chime) (singing) Bike of the Week! – Last week– (laughing) – I’m so chaffed with my
singing, isn’t that great? – It’s very good. – Thanks. – Anyway, last week,
we had two custom bikes going head-to-head. We had the pink BMC team
machine of Rohan Dennis with Shimano Dura Ace Di2 groupset, C40 carbon wheels, and
a matching helmet, too. – That’s right, versus
Elia Viviani’s specialized Venge Vias Disc with subtle purple accent, a Shimano Di2 groupset
with discs, obviously, Roval wheels, and this
was a close one this week, you remember the results? – Yeah. – Yeah, OK, 55% of you went for (background drum roll effect) the specialized. – [Emma] Wow. – [Simon] There we go. – [Emma] Honestly, I didn’t think purple could ever be subtle, but yeah, right. – Well, yeah, but, more
subtle than the pink. – Yeah–
– Yeah, anyway. – This week it is two
bikes you will be getting a closer look at, thanks
to Jon filming pro bikes at the Giro D’Italia, but we
can give you a sneak peek. – Yeah, we are, right, so
first up we’ve got this beautiful De Rosa of Ben Holmes
of Israel Bicycle Academy. We’ve got vision wheels,
we’ve got FSA components, and a Di2 groupset,
and it goes up against, head-to-head with Ryan
Mullen’s Trek Modane. Again, Shimano Di2 groupset,
but with Bontrager wheels, and actually, a lot of
integrated components for their aerodynamic
properties, so get involved, vote now, which one is your favorite? Italian versus American, (speaks extremely quickly
slurring words together), I guess. (mechanical whooshes and chime) Right then, it’s time for Bike Vault, obviously Jon is away at the Giro, and thankfully he’s
taken his horn with him, so that’s a bonus, isn’t it? We’re safe for now.
– Yep, it isn’t it. – Make sure if you want to get your bike possibly shown in the bike vaults, then you need to send us an
email with your pictures, and the email address is
on-screen now, hopefully. – Might want to take note
of the unwritten rules about how to prop your bike up, first. – Indeed, it is not easy
to get a super nice, is it? Right, should we get started, Emma? – Yes, let’s get started. Well, first up, we have
got this Kona Red Zone from Ryan Dougherty,
it’s got surround red, it’s got zipp 303s, and this
photo was taken in Oregon. – Yeah, you know what, I
like that, I like the fact that it’s something different. Not often you see a Kona
road bike, is it, but I think it looks pretty
cool, nice position on there, lever’s in the right
place, in the right gear, pedals level, cracking view as well. – [Emma] Yeah, I do like the view, yeah. – [Simon] What were you thinking? – I think, just from an
aesthetic point of view, I think he should have
chosen different backdrop, ‘caus it merges with
the color of his frame. – Oh. – But that’s just a styling point of view, I’m not saying the bike isn’t nice, or even super nice, potentially, but– – You’re holding it, you’re holding back from
super nice, aren’t you? – I am a little bit, yeah. – Ryan, there you go. – I’m sorry. – Emma’s fault, you only got a nice. I would’ve given you a super nice. – I feel really bad. – You should do Emma, that’s disgraceful. – Crikey, dear. – Right, this one, I think is super cool, and this was sent in by Mark Lockwood. He’s saying for all the
Brits out there wondering, the blue stuff in the
photos is called sky. Yeah, thanks Mark. Anyway, this is an Eastway
Zener, Prime wheels, and he’s converted it to Woombye, oh yeah, and this is the cool bit, he says “Could you just get an oldie
in them”, he uses the drops, he got rid of them! Have a look at that, OK. – How does he descend on
pothole road that drops? Tsk-tsk-tsk. – Well, ’cause you don’t need
’em ’cause he’s just got, I think that’s great, I know where I’m going, Emma. Your finger on this? – [Emma] OK, OK, you lead on this one. – This is super nice. No, I genuinely do love that bike, it looks great, beautifully proportioned, it’s a lovely photo, I
forget where it’s from, the Belair National Park in the Adelaide hills
and stuff, Australia. – That’s where it got blue sky. Next up, this is the titanium Van Nicholas from Planet X with
Campagnolo Record Chorus, MV65 wheels, MV stem, bars,
seat press, and a gun matte, physique R3 carbon saddle,
sent in by David Wright. – I like that, I’m not gonna lie, and I also like the photograph. – [Emma] It’s so clean looking. – [Simon] That is cool, isn’t it? – [Emma] That is nice, yeah, although, I would just say, and again, detail, but if you’re
gonna have no bottles, then take the bottle cages off, ’cause it’s terrible for drag. – Yeah, OK, but you
can’t have a photograph with a bike with no bottle cages, ’cause then it just looks naked. I mean you can’t ride a bike
with no bottle cages, can you? – Yes, you can, some people do. – You’d get very thirsty or
you’d go for very short rides. – Yeah. – No, I’m sorry, I think it’s like, a bike with no bottle cages looks naked. One bottle cage, that’s
legit, but no bottle cages, it’s clearly not right. – Well– – That, to me, I mean– – [Emma] I agree, it’s
super nice, but put some bottles in, please. – [Simon] All right. Super nice, but with a caveat,
we’d like some bottles, hey, get some GCN ones. – Yes.
– Then it would look cool. The smoky ones, that would really go.
– Yeah, that would look good. – Yeah, all right, next up,
oh this one is mega, isn’t it? – [Emma] Yeah. – [Simon] This is from Dwayne Deese from Charlotte, North Carolina. It’s his specialized Allay
Limited with surround red, yellow Tour de France limited edition, with Mavic 125th anniversary
limited edition wheels on there as well. Sorry, but that is
cool, that is very cool. – [Emma] Yeah, it looks
amazing and he’s chosen the perfect backdrop to set off
that frame color, frankly, yes. – [Simon] And it’s now the
medium frame as well, Emma, which is what we talked about earlier on. – [Emma] Yeah, I’ve got a
friend who says that he had one of them, not that edition, obviously, but this is the best bit by a bit of room. – Is that right? – Yeah, and he’s ridden quite a few bikes. – Well, my word, I’ll tell you what, I like the photo as well. That’s a cool bit of graffiti. It almost looks like “WHO GOT NEXT” is like one of those Instagram squiggles that you add on after
you’ve taken the photo, but there we go. What do you think, Emma? – [Emma] Oh, super nice,
definitely, super super nice (bell ringing) – There we go, although it’s
got no water bottles, huh? – Oh, damn. (laughing) – There we go, right. – There you go. – OK, next up, we’ve got
this one from Ewan Cowl-son. He has been over on the Isle of Erin, visiting his Dad’s bed and breakfast, and he’s taken his Scottish
Shand back home, if you like, although not sure it’s
from the Isle of Erin, but anyway, there we go, that’s very cool. Hand built steel frame, lovely backdrop. – [Emma] Yeah, I think it’s stunning. He’s got the, yeah, top two matched up with the sea on the horizon, ya. – It’s also got blue
sky, so sometimes it does shine. – In Scotland, even, and that’s like, that must be the one day a year. – Here today, he does say that, somewhere, a rare sunny day considering the location. – [Emma] Well, I like the way
that he’s chosen the backdrop to match the colors of his
wheels and frame and bar tape. You see the brown of the
heather and the moors and the blue of the sky and
the celeste of his frame. – Yeah, do you know what I really like about this as well, is the
fact that he’s gone for rarely used now, silver wheels. We don’t see many silver wheels anymore, but they look cool on
his bike, very classic. I know what you’re thinking. – [Emma] Super nice. – [Simon] Is it?
– [Emma] Yes– (bell ringing) – There we go, super nice. And with one water bottle,
this time, in a cage, and a very tasteful saddle
bag as well, which I like. Right, this is the last one for now. This is number 22, Great Divide Disc, another titanium one, Shimano
Ultegra AT20 groupset, Renault Assault SLG disc wheels, and this one is sent in from Steve Doe, in Honolulu, in Hawaii. What do you thinking of that? – Yeah, it’s perfectly kitted
out and matched up, yup, I’m– – I sense hesitation, what’s going on? – I don’t know, there’s just
been too many super nice bikes, and after the previous one,
I’m, this one is amazing, but is it super nice? Also, the backdrop again,
the wheels just fade in and they are beautiful wheels. He needs a nicer backdrop for– – But look how the valves
are in the right place, the tire logos are lined
up with the valves, the cranks are in the right place. I mean, there a lot of effort
has gone into this from Steve. – [Emma] If you’re gonna be pernickety, the back wheel, the valve
is not quite at the bottom. – Oh, you are cruel, Emma. Steve, I’m sorry, but despite
the fact that your bike is amazing, it’s not getting a super nice. – Just move that valve
across a bit before. – That’s cruel. – (laughing) I’m sorry. We can’t devalue the super nice, we can’t. – I feel for Steve (mimics
crying), I really do. – All right, give him a super nice, then. – No, I can’t now. – OK, fair enough. – It’s all right, anyway,
make sure you send your bike vault submissions
into the email address. If Emma’s here, she’s gonna be cruel. – Yeah, you’ve gotta
maintain standards, guys. – If it was me, I
basically just put a ring in that constantly, so
it’s probably just as well. – Yeah, you just like ringing
the bell, though, don’t you? (laughing) Well, that’s a wrap for the week. Make sure you stay tuned to check out Jon’s pro bikes from the Giro, and if you haven’t subscribed already, click down here to subscribe. – Yeah, and if you want
another video right now, definitely not Giro content, nay, it’s in fact far from
it, bike packing content, oh yeah, take a look at the 3T Exploro that I was lucky enough to ride around the Atlas mountains of Morocco. I was just down there.

Only registered users can comment.

  1. I'm pretty excited I found this channel! Lots of great info and awesomeness. On this video in particular…to start, I currently own a 1989 Cannondale 3.0 racing bike (one of the last handbuilt frames in the US before the outsourcing), outfitted with all Shimano 105 and Campagnolo wheels with 105 Hubs of that time period and still a really fast bike! This is set to become my rainy day bike, but I am about to build a higher end bike on a budget. I have a 2005 Fuji ROUBAIX Pro frame coming in the mail (had this bike before, loved it, sold it, regret it, rebuilding it…climbed like a champ!), I plan on outfitting it with a nice-ish set of carbon wheels and a Campagnolo Centaur/Record or Shimano Ultegra/Dura-Ace 10 speed drivetrain….here is why…as the technology grows faster and faster each year, the best of the best parts of the years prior become really really cheap! One must not get caught up in the marketing extravaganza! If I can outfit a bike frame I used to ride and love with TOP-END parts from several years prior, that are still brand-new or "like-new" for cheap… then that is definitely a win for a married father of two in the Navy. Not to mention the enjoyment of building a bike from scratch and then taking it for a ride? As a 16 year helicopter mechanic, there isn't much better than seeing the fruits of your labor! Maybe when I retire at 20 years, I will convince the wife to let me buy a super awesome road bike…until then, budget builds are the goal! Apologies for the essay, wasn't supposed to be this long!

  2. Few things, don't know if it was mention from previous post. Orbea do have a limited lifetime warranty and great customer service as well. I have purchased a carbon avant with tiagra groupset instead of alum 105 avant. Paid a bit more than i wanted, but well worth it. Will upgrade wheel set soon.

  3. I actually think that even my cheapo alivio trekking bike shifts just fine and i am not sure i could tell the shifting speed and acuracy apart from my ultegra road bike when blindfolded. no joke. the v-brakes are rubbish though.

    i would always recommend a 105 and the best frame you can get for your money and use-case (at that alu-carbon tipping point budget).

  4. Components wear out? Mine have not so good job (or maybe because?) I did not get low end stuff.
    Imagine all those miles and thousands of shifts/brake pulls that would have been so much less enjoyable.
    Have fun on those rubbish groupsets guys. Keep telling yourself you will upgrade them one day 😉

  5. More expensive groupsets 'unlikely to perform better'?
    So if DA is 'just lighter' than Ultegra, then 105 and Dura ace are next to each other in 'performance'.
    They feel (perform) very different to me. both in the old 10, and newer 11 speed versions.

  6. So much trash talk by amateur cyclists…….. until people get it. Then its the best thing since sliced bread.

  7. i can only recommend those who cannot afford those bikes they promote is that "DON'T BUY UPGRADES, RIDE UPGRADES, "

  8. 105 is not just "perfectly fine", it's an excellent product at a reasonable price point. It shouldn't even be a question to begin with. Even Tiagra is "perfectly fine" if you don't mind 10 vs 11 speed. Get it properly setup, and you'll have no problem getting into gear. If you're racing then MAYBE that FRACTION of a FRACTION of a second might mean you'll miss a break/wheel/sprint, if that fraction of a second even exists…

    There's simply a diminishing return, that goes for the components AND frames as well. If anything, you should pay more attention to the GEOMETRY and FIT of the bike.

  9. In the case of the orbea bikes that you were speaking of at the beginning of the segment I would in all likelihood go for the ultegra equipped unit as it already has a high quality, lightweight, carbon fiber frame. Now it may not be as high of a grade and as light as the other but it's light enough…certainly more than most need. And considering is paired up with the ultegra groupset and brakes it's a fantastic little bike. And to be able to outperform the limits of that bike you have to be pretty goddamn awesome.

  10. 10:59 did emma say she carries toilet paper? in her fanny pack that is not a fanny pack? Some Brit'ish term that I missed I think… keys and butt wipe – nice!

  11. Everything good… =D – if you buy it in the winter+ handlebars, seatpost, saddle and frame used… its not expensive

  12. Difference between 105 and Ultegra as I see many times on the internet, is a saving of about 250 grams over the whole groupset, and Ultegra costs about £250 more. Best frame and 105 is where my money goes.

  13. Buy the frame set and the group set separately then build it yourself. You can chose the components you like and save money meaning you can get better, more expensive parts extending your budget!

  14. Unless it's a titanium frame, it's all the same – shorter lifespan/obsolescent, carbon and latest components are all going to break or wear out in 2-5 years. Ti frame, well, 18 years and two-three wheel and component upgrades, still riding like new, no blemishes. No contest. Custom can deal with fit problems and personal aspects once and for all, unlike carbon that is only really available in stock limited sizes as provided by the brand names. Better in carbon is more expensive, lighter, but then often more dated as well, with tricky bits like integrated seatpost masts or odd proprietary quirks destined for ridicule. Pros get paid to ride the silliest gear, because they are rolling advertisements – don't be a sucker. Roughly half the Tour pros used discs – at major disadvantage for wheel changes. Which half won? Why? It takes experience to separate fashion from function.

  15. Taiwan branded aluminium frame (Giant, Merida, etc.) vs China unbranded carbon frame

    I will definitely go for the aluminium frame.

  16. I'd say frame is priority.. The ridefeel overall is going to be more attributed to the frame- components affect the ridefeel too but should moreso be considered an interface that is variable.

    That said, the way things are looking for aluminum nowadays I'd take a lot of aluminum frames over their carbon counterpart.

    Engineers are now able more than ever to produce a frame that is both stiff and compliant. Lower end carbon is generally heavier if not the same weight as some of these nicer aluminum frames– the likes of Emonda ALR and the DSW Allez Sprint.

  17. Depend if your a newbie get aluminium frame with 105 then get fit then test ride bikes of higher range this will give you a good indication of what you like/suits you after this buy the best you can get for your needs

  18. Wheels make more of a difference than anything, I would advise anyone looking at a bike at any level to prioritise wheelset first, groupset second, and all other components, including the frame, afterwards. The frame is really only a receptacle for your components!

  19. In my opinion an experience. I would buy a second hand bike that has a carbon frame. Bought one for 400 GBP and had campagnolo centaur. Down the road upgrade to ultegra di2 and tubeless wheels . Just a bliss from the jaw dropping prices of buying just a frame. It's just ridiculous when you look at those prices.

  20. I really like the Giant/Liv range they are hard to beat on the value of the overall package. I love Ultegra Di2….. I think you have to consider the package, I don't understand the point of a moderate frame with sora on it……

  21. I would go for the better frame. Reason being you will need to replace drive train components over time as they wear anyway, so as they do make your desired upgrade. Just ensure that the upgrade you would ultimately like to make is compatible with the current drive train.

  22. Better? To me, it's like saddles, the frame that's best is the one that fits and works for me. Components change so fast it's hard to keep up. I think what works for your riding type is most important. I'd rather have a steel frame with older components that will work, than the latest frame with the latest components that I won't ride!

  23. The markup on components is huge compared to the markup on a complete bicycle. If you buy a complete bike all the components are OEM and didn't come in fancy boxes. Components do wear out though, so do you replace with the best you can buy or not? Would you prefer a worn Dura Ace chain or a box fresh basic SRAM chain? Go for the fanciest frame and accept the reality that components wear out and need to be replaced.

  24. Don't really get why do valves in right place and crank in 3 o'clock position determine whether a bike is nice or super nice? It's like saying a fashion model is not super nice cos her hair does not flow in the 3 o'clock position.

  25. When the time came for me to get a new bike I decided to get the best of it all but save money by getting a used bike. $2000 US for a 2017 ex team UHC Orbea M11 Ltd with all Dura-Ace including Dura-Ace pedals Pioneer power meter and upgraded my wheels to new DS Swiss Dicut 48. New on Ebay the set was $1300 and capped thoes with tubeless Schwalbe Pro 1. So short of DI2 and disk the best of the beat for under $3500

  26. I went for an Orbea Myo custom paint job on the OMR frame and upgraded all the parts except the gears. Running R8020 ultegra with a view to go Campagnolo eventually

  27. i'd rather build my bike .. first i'd buy the frame and fork .. groupset next .. then saddle and seatpost .. and finally wheel set and tires ..

  28. I can't believe this is even a question still. Always better frame because components are always cheaper than upgrade than frames. Wear our the OEM group & components then upgrade as needed. But you'll always be riding the premium frame. Common sense. There's very little difference in components on high grade frames unless pushed to the limit anyway.

  29. Looking at the Canyon Endurace and Ultimate CF SL vs. CF SLX frames, how can choosing the be justified at such an increase in price, considering they have virtually the same components?

  30. The second-to-last bike is not "celeste" in colour, that's rather khaki or reed green. And of course you leave the cages on but take the bottles out for the picture.

  31. Really good episode…more generally it's a shame Emma doesn't appear more often, she is clever and smart!
    GCN needs to give more emphasis to women's cycling.

  32. Get the best frame you think you'll need and then upgrade components one by one as needed. The minimum standards for training are much lower than for race day. If it passes your test ride that means you can train on it as is. You'll maybe discover deficiencies for "race day" standards as you go. But that can happen even if you buy the top component groups. Lots of people only ever figure out what cogs they need the first time they race any given course. The same can be said for chain rings. If it's stiff enough for training and can handle your training spec tires it's hard to imagine the frame then coming up short in competition. However, make sure that the frame can accommodate the kinds of wheels you're likely to upgrade to.

    Upgrading component by component makes sense for everyone but those who know precisely what they might need as an upgrade. And if you're hear wondering what the smart thing to do is you're not ready to know that you need Dura Ace or Super Record as a higher priority than an "SLX" or "Advanced Composites" frame over one that is $500 to $1000 cheaper and weighs maybe 100-200 grams more. If push comes to shove you can probably buy a new front wheel for race day that drops 200 grams if you decided on a second tier (but otherwise perfectly raceable) "complete bike" purchase.

  33. Conventional wisdom would be to aim for a better frame, and upgrade the components later, but if I was to find a rubbish frame, with good components at a bargain price. I would definitely buy it, buy a good frame, and move the components

  34. @SimonRichardson "If a bike has no bottle cages, you clearly are not riding" –> Guess what? I do ride a bike with no bottle cages. I prefer to use a Camel bag on longer rides.

  35. Gear envy is infectious but getting out on the bike availible is key & often forgotten as priority.

    Bought a £999 aluminium frame with 105 @ 40% price drop last week for £640.
    *Possible upgrades:-
    Seat, seatpost
    >Cannondale Caad Optimo, 105<
    (Colour Silver) 🏋️‍♂️

  36. I buy used frames, high end, 6-12 mos old on eBay for a third of what the frame sells for new. Then constantly upgrading components.

  37. I think its much cheaper to build actually. Maybe not 2ith a 2 grand frame set but I can build one heck of a bike for 1500.

  38. I’d say go for frames. I got a 2012 Cinelli Pro Estrada with Campy Athena groupset- and over time upgrading the parts didn’t cost much more than it would to simply replace them from wear and usage….
    But my frame, never crashed is perfect and stiff!! If you really want to invest in cycling get a nice frame and every few months or so upgrade some components 😉

  39. 11 at the back? tbh in the flatlands (NL, BE) I use 50 front and 3 gears at the back, that's all, more gears only when there are slopes. compact with 9 gears suits fine, investing in better frames would pay off, up till a certain point that for recreative biking the extra 1000,- to gain 5% improvement on frame makes no sense anymore. it is like going for 0,5 kg less, but having room for losing 10 kg weight yourself.

  40. Nope. First and foremost, frame all the time. There's no point in spending good money on a decent groupset if the frame ride is harsh and unrefined.

  41. The answer is a simple question:
    Do you like to adjust your gears?
    cheap components like front and rear deraileur will often be more work when it comes to adjusting and maintaining, other than than i've used my cheap shimano deore stuff since it came out, it works perfect still, tho i have had to adjust the shifting from time to time.
    ALLWAYS get the frame, unless someone is selling something they don't know what is, for a silly low price..

  42. First off, save your money by shopping auction sites. You can find what you want and a lot of times somerhing you dreamed of in your price range.

  43. Frame – you can always upgrade smaller components. Harder to get used to a new frame than new components.

    Cheaper also

  44. I know very little about bikes, but after spending hours & hours watching GCN, I think that the Shand is one of the best bicycles I've seen on here, with the stunning black/red carbon frame Pinarello in a previous video coming a close second.
    My sister was a keen cyclist. She spent a lot on a high-spec Ribble in the mid-nineties. It was when bikes first started to look really high-tech and modern. We went on a 'trip' to the local off-licence, with me following on her mountain bike. I had to wait outside the shop: the Ribble was too attractive to bike thieves…
    An elderly lady walked past the Ribble, turned around and stared at it for ages. I bet that few bikes would get that type of reaction nowadays?
    Also, I have spotted more than a few MTBs left seemingly abandoned on the streets. In the seventies, we tried desperately to save enough to get the – from memory – £80 ($100 USD) to buy a new Raleigh Grifter. Our Christmas money was about £8. Now you'd just have to wait until you found an abandoned bike of similar type 🙂
    Great videos GCN by the way. The camera work is tops.

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