Boise Rescue: Elder Oaks and Turley
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Boise Rescue: Elder Oaks and Turley

October 12, 2019


unique opportunity to be here together in
this setting, acknowledge the presence of Elder Dallin H Oaks, of the quorum of the
twelve apostles, who will be presiding at our devotional this evening. We also recognize Brother Richard E Turley,
Assistant Church Historian, who will be presenting things this evening with Elder Oaks. “My dear brothers and sisters, we greet
you here, and at the other buildings, to which this is being broadcast. We are thrilled to be with you. Richard E Turly Jr. and I are pleased to be
with you tonight. The purpose of our message is to answer some
faithful questions and to minister to some disabling doubts. We do this under this title of our message,
‘Who’s on the Lord’s Side?’ In determining on who’s on the Lord’s
side on these latter-days, there are two major questions. First, for most non-Mormons, and for some
Mormons, the key question is how they feel about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. For most Mormons, the key question on who’s
on the Lord’s side is how they feel about the church’s current prophetic leadership. If those feelings are sufficiently negative,
they take members into what we call apostasy. We will speak of each of these two questions. First, Brother Turley will speak about Joseph
Smith and the Book of Mormon.” Richard E Turley Jr.: Twenty-nine years ago, when I was twenty-nine
years old, I received a call in my law office from Elder Dallin H Oaks of the Quorum of
the Twelve Apostles, invited me to lunch, and that interview led to others, at the end
of which, I was invited to give up my law practice and devote my full time to the history
of the church. By that time, I had already spent about half
my life immersed in the church’s history, and so, as you might imagine, I was quite
intrigued when offered the keys and combinations to the church’s historical treasures and
told that I was responsible for them. It was a rare privilege to be able to access
all of those treasures, whenever I wished, and to be able to hold them, read them, and
study them to my heart’s intent. For the last three decades, I have been doing
exactly that, as well as traveling the world in the interest of church history. The 69th section of the Doctrine and Covenants
directs that the church historian, quote ‘travel many times from place to place and church
to church’ or, as we might say, travel from church unit to church unit, that he may more
easily obtain knowledge’ close quote. As I have traveled in North America, South
America, Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, and the Isles of the Sea, I have frequently
participated in Question and Answer Sessions. More than once, I have been asked by church
members questions like the following: ‘With your access to all the historical
treasures of the church, what is the single most remarkable item that you have seen in
your study of church history?’ And to that question, I have uniformly answered
the Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon. For the next few minutes, I would like to
talk to you about this important manuscript. When Joseph Smith received the gold plates
from the angel Moroni, early on the morning of September 22, 1827, he received also a
sacred commission. Joseph later wrote, ‘the heavenly messenger
delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them. That if I should let them go carelessly, or
through any other neglect in mind, I should be cut off. But then if I abuse all of my endeavors until
he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.’ Those of us who have studied church history
realize that part of the four year period in which Moroni instructed Joseph about the
plates before delivering them to him, was to go into teaching him lessons about treating
the plates as a sacred record and not as an asset to be used for the purposes of lifting
his family sometimes crushing poverty. To protect the plates, when he first received
them, Joseph hid them in a hollow log. Later, he went back to retrieve them so he
could carry them back to his home. At the time, others had inferred that he had
had the plates, and you realize there might be danger in traveling with the record too
close to the public roads. Instead, he walked home through the woods,
avoiding prying eyes. If you have spent time in upstate New York,
as I have, you can imagine what it was like to carry the plates home through the trees
and fields between the Hill Cumorah and the Smith Family Home. As Joseph walked through the early fall weather,
leaves crunched under his feat as the smells and sounds of the forest surrounded him. During his homeward journey, Joseph came to
a fallen log and began to step over it when, suddenly, a man leaped from behind the log
and struck him in an effort to rob him of the plates. Joseph defended himself and then began running,
only to be attacked twice more before reaching home with the heavy plates, as well as a thumb
that was dislocated in the melee. This was just one of many experiences Joseph
Smith had in trying to protect the plates and what they contain. Once he had completed the translation of the
Book of Mormon, he did not want to lose the original manuscript of that translation. The previous year, when the 116 pages disappeared,
Joseph learned the lesson that all of us with computers learn, which is back-up, back-up,
back-up. After completing the rest of the translation
in 1829, Joseph returned to his home in Harmony, Pennsylvania to be with his wife, Emma, and
her family there, and he had trusted the process of making a backup copy to his brother Hyrum
Smith and their colleague Oliver Cowdry, who had served for most of the original manuscript
of the Book of Mormon as the scribe. These two men dutifully made a backup copy
that we today call the Printer’s Manuscript, and they preserve the original dictation copy
very carefully. Eventually, they returned that original copy
to Joseph Smith, and he kept it in his possession. In 1840, after keeping it for many years,
when he was working on the third edition of the Book of Mormon, he used it to proofread
the printed text. Then the following year, in 1841, the church
was building the Nauvoo House, which is described in the 124th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. During the construction of the Nauvoo House,
Joseph Smith took the original manuscript of the Book of Mormon, that he had been safeguarding
so carefully, and he put it in the cornerstone of that building. Brothers and Sisters I’ve thought many times
about his decision to put the original manuscript into the cornerstone. ‘Why would he do that’, I’ve asked myself. The question, after some thought, should be
obvious to most of us. He got the gold plates from a stone box, and
so it made sense that, wanting to protect the original manuscript, he would put it into
a stone box. After he put the manuscript into the cornerstone
of the Nauvoo House, the builders sealed up the box and began laying bricks on top of
it as they continued the construction process, and that was the last time Joseph Smith ever
saw the manuscript. Three years later, in 1844, Joseph was martyred
in Carthage, Illinois. The decades passed and, in 1879, his wife,
Emma, also passed away. Three years later, Emma’s second husband,
Lewis Bidamon, decided to do something with the never-completed Nauvoo House. And so, he tore down the southeast portion
of the building and used the materials that he salvaged to complete a structure on the
north end. During the demolition, he came to the cornerstone
and opened it, and there inside laid the original manuscript of the Book of Mormon. Now, gold plates do very well for hundreds
of years in a stone box. But the same is not true for paper. With the high humidity in Nauvoo, the high
water table there, and flooding on the Mississippi river, which is adjacent to the Nauvoo House,
water had seeped into the cornerstone and much of the manuscript was soaked. Lewis Bidamon took out the soggy manuscript,
carried it home, and dried it out. Then, over the course of the next few years,
as visitors came to Nauvoo, he gave away portions of the manuscript as souvenirs. Gratefully, many of the people who received
those portions were members of our church and between 1882, when Lewis first opened
the box, and the 1930’s, nearly all of the known surviving large portions of the manuscript
made their way to the Church Historian’s Office in Salt Lake City. Today, there are also a few of the smaller
fragments of the manuscript in other locations. The bottom line is this: we can study the
Book of Mormon manuscript today because we have it. Over the last 30 years, I have looked at it
again and again. I want to tell you something about that manuscript
and how it relates to our covenant obligation as church members to remember and follow the
savior. We have on display in the Church History Library
in Salt Lake City a page of the original manuscript of the Book of Mormon for all to see. If you can’t make it to salt lake, you can
also see this page in an online exhibit that we call ‘Foundations of Faith.’ By the way, as part of the Joseph Smith Papers
Project, we will be publishing all of the surviving portions of the original manuscript
for the whole world to see, just as we are publishing the other documents in which Joseph
Smith had a major role. If you look at the original manuscript of
the Book of Mormon, you will see that the text moves smoothly from one line to the next
with very little punctuation and very few corrections, just a steady flow of text from
one line to another. Clearly, you can tell, as you study the manuscript,
that the prophet was dictating as the scribe took down his words. Now that might not sound very remarkable to
you, but I want you to think about something: if you’ve read the Book of Mormon, you know
that it has a complex set of characters, a complex geography, a complex chronology, and
a complex narrative with threads that intertwine. And of course, it contains a very rich treasure
of theological truth. I have a doctorate level of education, and
I write books. I have computers to help me, I have a staff
to assist me, and, with all of that, it still takes numerous drafts and often several years
for me to write a significant book. Now realize this: The Book of Mormon, essentially
as we have it today, was dictated by the prophet Joseph Smith, a man with perhaps one year
of formal education, in just a single draft over a period of less than 90 days. Brothers and Sisters, I don’t care how smart
you are, I don’t care how much education you have or how good you are as a writer. I defy anyone to sit down and, in just one
draft, dictate in a period of ninety days or less, a book of the power and complexity
of the Book of Mormon. I’ll come back to that in a minute because
I want to contrast it with another artifact we have on display at the Church history library
and on our Joseph Smith Paper’s website. But first I’ll have to mention something
else. A lot of people have asked, ‘when Joseph
Smith had his first vision, when Moroni first visited him, and when he translated the Book
of Mormon, why didn’t he write these experiences down at the time.’ The answer is really quite simple. He hardly wrote anything down at the time. He and his family were not a record-keeping
people. As I mentioned earlier, I have traveled around
the globe. In the process, I have met people in many
parts of the world who rely on an oral tradition for their history instead of writing. Joseph Smith’s family was literate, but
it was largely a family of oral tradition. So far as we can tell from the historical
record, Joseph Smith and his family members didn’t write a lot of things down in those
early days. But when the church was legally organized
on April the 6th, 1830, the Lord gave a commandment to the prophet Joseph Smith to keep a record. That commandment, now in section 21 of the
Doctrine and Covenants, reads, ‘Behold, there shall be a record kept among you.’ These words are so important that we have
them written on the wall in the Church History Library. Joseph Smith struggled with this commandment
to keep a record. He knew he was supposed to do so, but he didn’t
like to write. It was hard for him. He wasn’t very good at it. Finally, on November the 27th, 1832, two and
a half years after the church was organized, Joseph Smith sat down to write his very first
journal entry. That journal entry is also on display right
now in the Church History Library, online with our Foundations of Faith exhibit, and
also on the Joseph Smith Papers website. I want to read to you briefly what this very
first journal entry says. You can imagine that Joseph wanting to keep
this commandment to keep a record, sits down. He’s purchased a new little notebook, he
gets his ink and his quill pen and he dips the pen in the ink and begins to write, and
this is what he wrote: ‘Joseph Smith Jr.’s record book bought for to note all the minute
circumstances that comes under my observation.’ I have a degree in English, and I’ll tell
you that this in not an especially good sentence. Joseph recognized that fact, too, and, as
you can see in the slide, he crossed it out. He dipped his pen and started again. This time, he tried to write essentially the
same content, but he wanted to flower it up a bit. So he writes, ‘Joseph Smith Jrs book for
record bought on the 27th November, 1832 for the purpose to keep a minute account of all
things that come under my observation etc.’ A valiant effort but still, frankly, not very
good. He concludes the journal entry that day by
writing very humbly, ‘may God grant that I be directed in all my thoughts. Oh blessed thy servant. Amen.’ Overall, this humble journal entry is not
very good from the standpoint of writing. A third of it is even crossed out, but consider
this. This awkward first journal entry of Joseph
Smith was written three and a half years after Joseph completed the translation of the Book
of Mormon. Contrast Joseph the man, writing this journal
entry, to Joseph the seer, dictating the Book of Mormon. With the 1832 journal entry, Joseph struggled
to write a single page of text. But with the 1829 Book of Mormon manuscript,
Joseph rapidly dictated what became a 588 page printed book in a single draft over a
period of less than 90 days. The only way that was possible, Brothers and
Sisters, is in the way he said he did it, which is by the gift and power of God. The Lord and his servants went through a lot
of trouble over thousands of years to preserve the various records that make up the Book
of Mormon so Joseph Smith could translate the book for our day. Have you ever stopped to think about how important
the Book of Mormon is in testifying of our Lord Jesus Christ? In 1982, the Church added a subtitle to the
Book of Mormon, ‘Another Testament of Jesus Christ.’ The Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ
and the covenants that he makes with his people. Hence, it is a testament, just as the Old
Testament and the New Testament were about the Old covenant and the New covenant that
we find in the Bible. Each week in sacrament meeting, we partake
of the emblems of the Lord’s atoning sacrifice and we covenant to remember the Lord Jesus
Christ always. The word ‘remember’ appears in the scriptures
more than 200 times and the word ‘forget’ also appears dozens of times. Clearly, as human beings, we risk forgetting
the Lord. The Book of Mormon, the Old Testament, and
the New Testament contain case after case of people making covenants and then forgetting
them. Regular meeting with the Book of Mormon will
help us always remember him. It will testify of him in powerful ways. Let me give you just one example:
When I was a third-year law student at BYU, I was taken a full load of difficult law classes. I was serving as the executive editor of the
(????????) at the time, which will not mean a whole lot to most of you but it means I
was very, very busy. At the time, I was also the Elders Quorum
President in my BYU student ward, which requires significant time commitment, and I was married
and had four young children at the home and I spent time each day reading, praying, singing,
and playing with them, as well as putting them to bed at night. For some reason, with all of this, I felt
compelled, on top of it all, to go to the college of religion and take a graduate course
on Greek New Testament Textual Criticism. In that class, I learned that in the 22nd
chapter of the Book of Luke, there are important verses that we often quote in church. In these verses, Christ is in the Garden of
Gethsemane working out the great atonement. Beginning in verse 43 we read, ‘And there
appeared an angel unto him, from heaven, strengthening him. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly:
and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.’ Now that, Brothers and Sisters, is one of
the finest descriptions that exists of this incredible moment in the Garden of Gethsemane. If you look at the thousands of early manuscripts
of the New Testament, however, you will discover that there are some in which those verses
do not exist. We read in the Book of Mormon that plain and
precious truths would be removed from the Bible. Here is an instance in which some of the early
manuscripts don’t have those verses in them. Now some scholars will look at the various
manuscripts and say, ‘well, if some manuscripts have these verses in them and some do not,
these verses must be questionable.’ And so they read these verses as a C-level
passage rather than as an A-level passage. In other words, they cast doubt on them. But we, Brothers and Sisters, have another
testament of Jesus Christ. We can go the Book of Mormon and we can read
a powerful confirmation of these words in Mosiah Chapter 3 verse 7. ‘And lo, he shall suffer temptations and
pain of body, hunger, thirst, fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto
death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the
wickedness and abominations of his people.’ The Book of Mormon confirms the authenticity
of important New Testament details about the atonement of Jesus Christ, the key event in
all of human history. This passage and a similar one in section
19 of the Doctrine and Covenants serve as second and third witnesses to the atonement
of Jesus Christ that we covenant each weak to remember as we participate in the ordinance
of the sacrament. Brothers and Sisters I testify to you that
the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, and that, if we study it, we
will grow in faith in ways that are difficult without. There is a reason the Book of Mormon has been
preserved to come forth in our day. There is a reason why the Prophet Joseph Smith
was charged so severely to keep the record safe, and there is a reason why he and others
suffered valiantly in order to bring it forth, as Doctrine and Covenants 135 says, ‘the
salvation of a ruined world.’ The Book of Mormon is for us and our day. It was compiled anciently and translated in
modern times by the gift and power of God for us so that we will not forget. So that we will always remember the Lord Jesus
Christ as we covenant to do when we partake of the sacrament. If we will study the Book of Mormon regularly,
we will have keen insights about the Lord and his work, and we will obtain the faith
to meet the many challenges that we will each face on this earth and that are, indeed, a
part of our purpose for being here. I leave that testimony with you in the name
of Jesus Christ, Amen. Dallin H. Oaks: “Brother Turley has given us a marvelous account
of Joseph Smith and the translation of the Book of Mormon. I will now speak of the second question about
the truth of the restored gospel, the continuing authority of the church’s prophetic leadership. I will do so under the heading of ‘apostasy’. Throughout our recorded religious history,
we see a pattern of apostasy and restoration. The great prophets we learn about in the scriptures
were often individuals who restored gospel truths that had been corrupted by apostasy. Noah, Enoch, Abraham, and Moses, to mention
only a few. There are two main causes, or manifestations
of apostasy, mentioned in the scriptures. The first is disobedience to the commandments
of God. Thus, through the prophet Isaiah, the Lord
declared: ‘The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof, because they have
transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, broken the everlasting covenant.’ The scriptures are filled with similar statements. We will say little about this kind of apostasy,
but concentrate our remarks on the second cause, or manifestation. The scriptures, ancient and modern, have many
warnings about false prophets. This is the second cause, or manifestation,
of apostasy. Here is our Savior’s teaching on this subject. Note that these teachings are addressed to
his disciples, not to unbelievers. False prophets can be most threatening to
those who already believe in prophets. ‘And Jesus answered and said unto them,
take heed that no man deceive you, for many shall come in my name, saying, ‘I am Christ,’
and deceive many.’ He continued as follows: ‘And many false
prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love
of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the
same shall be saved.’ Now, I switch to the Joseph Smith translation
of these passages, which give a significant additional warning and an important way to
avoid being deceived. ‘For in those days there shall also arise
false Christ’s and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders insomuch that
if possible they shall deceive the very elect who are the elect according to the covenant. Whoso treasureth up my word shall not be deceived.’ After the Savior’s resurrection and ascension,
his apostles continued these warnings. Paul taught the elders, ‘take heed therefore
unto yourselves, and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made thee overseers,
to feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing,
shall grievous wolves enter among you, not sparing the flock. Also, of your own selves, shall man arise,
speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them.’ The apostle John wrote, ‘beloved, believe
not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets
are gone out into the world.’ The Savior had a great teaching on how to
identify false prophets. ‘Beware of false prophets, which come to
you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of
thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good
fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.’ Here’s a visual to help you remember this
important teaching. Here are good fruits and here are decaying
or undesirable fruits. When you are judging the truth of teachings,
look to the fruits of those teachings in the lives of those who follow them. By their fruits ye shall know them. Now Brother Turley will explain how the pattern
of apostasy, the Savior and his apostles described continued even after the Gospel was restored
by the prophet Joseph Smith. Richard E Turley: “If you have read the Old Testament, the
New Testament, and the Book of Mormon, you will realize that apostasy is a frequent phenomenon
throughout the history of the ancient church. It has also been a frequent phenomenon in
modern times. The history of our latter-day church furnishes
numerous examples. Apostasy leads to chaos, which is contrary
to the way of the Lord. In the scriptures, the Lord has repeatedly
emphasized the importance of order. In the Doctrine and Covenants, for example,
the Lord declared, ‘My house is a house of order saith the Lord God.’ When the church was organized on April the
6th, 1830, the Lord gave a revelation that is now contained in the 21st section of the
Doctrine and Covenants. In this revelation, the Lord, speaking of
Joseph Smith, commanded: ‘Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed to all his
words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in
all holiness before me. For his word, ye shall receive as if from
mine own mouth, in all patience and faith. For by so doing, by doing these things, the
gates of hell shall not prevail against you. Yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers
of darkness from before you and cause the heavens to shake for your good and his name’s
glory.” The first principle of order therefore, is
that the Lord speaks to the church through the prophet. In other words, the Lord wanted to make it
clear to the Saints that the Prophet was the head of the church on earth, the mouthpiece
of the Lord. This was the first of the many principles
related to order in the church that the Lord laid down in early revelations. Another later principle appears in a revelation
that many members of the church call ‘The Articles and Covenants.’ We can think of it as the Church’s Constitution
or the first general handbook of instructions. Today, we call it section 20 of the Doctrine
and Covenants. In Doctrine and Covenants section 20 verses
65 and 66, the Lord makes it clear that no one can be appointed to an office in the Church
without a vote of the church. Our second principle therefore is that no
one can be appointed to an office without the vote of the church members. Not long after the church was organized, one
of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon, Hyrum Page, announced that he was receiving
revelations by means of a seer stone. Several church members, including Oliver Cowdery,
were intrigued by Page’s purported revelations. In section 28 of the Doctrine and Covenants,
however, the Lord reminded Oliver Cowdery ‘but behold verily verily I say unto thee,
that no one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church,
excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jr., for he receiveth them even as Moses.’ The Lord then counseled Oliver, ‘Thou shalt
take thy brother Hyrum Page between him and thee alone and tell him that those things
which he hath written from that stone are not of me, and that Satan deceiveth him. For behold these things have not been appointed
unto him, neither shall anything be appointed to any of this church contrary to the church
covenants.’ Then the Lord reiterated an important principle:
‘For all things must be done in order, and by common consent in the church by the prayer
of faith.’ Taken together, these verses provide a third
principle: No one is to receive revelation for the church except the prophet. When the church’s headquarters moved from
New York to Kirtland, Ohio, similar difficulties arose, as they have throughout the history
of the church. Before the Saints moved to Ohio, the Lord
promised that He would reveal His law there. Section 42 of the Doctrine and Covenants was
understood by church members as being a fulfillment of this promise, and that revelation contains
further warnings against those who had set themselves up as receiving revelation for
the church or who teach unauthorized doctrines. The Lord warns, ‘again I say unto you that
it shall not be given to anyone to preach my gospel, or to build up my church, except
he be ordained by some one who has authority, and it is known to the church that he has
authority and has been regularly ordained by the heads of the church. And again, the elders, priests, and teachers
of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are the Bible and the
Book of Mormon, in the which is the fullness of the gospel. And they shall observe the covenants and articles
to do them, and these shall be their teachings, as they shall be directed by the Spirit. And the spirit shall be given you by the prayer
of faith; and if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach.’ Our fourth principle, therefore, is that no
one is to preach or build up the church except he that be regularly ordained by the heads
of the church. Also, church members are not to teach their
own doctrines. They are to teach from the scriptures. Furthermore, they are to observe the covenants
and church articles and teach from them as well. During the Kirtland period, a Ms. Hubble set
herself up as receiving revelations for the church. We call her Ms. Hubble because we are not
completely sure of her first name. Her errors prompted another revelation from
the Lord, who, if you look at all these experiences strung together, was being remarkably patient
with the young church. That revelation, now section 43 of the Doctrine
and Covenants, reminded church leaders that the prophet was the only one appointed to
receive revelations for the church. As to others who might claim to do so, the
Lord directed, “And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings
of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments; And this I give unto you
that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me. For verily I say unto you, that he that is
ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to
teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have
appointed.’ That then is another important principle of
order. He that is ordained shall come in at the gate
and be properly ordained. In addition to these challenges faced by the
church during this time period, there were many enthusiastic members who sought so zealously
to receive spiritual manifestations that they began experiencing spiritual phenomena that
led to unworthy behavior and, once again, basic violations of the principles of order
that the Lord have given again and again. To counter such overzealousness, the Lord
gave revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith, now section 50 of the Doctrine and Covenants,
in which he declared, ‘Hearken, O ye elders of my church, and give ear to the voice of
the living God; and attend to the words of wisdom which shall be given unto you. Behold I say unto you that there are many
spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world. And also Satan hath sough to deceive you,
that he might overthrow you.’ We can go on and on with examples with people
who have apostatized by ignoring the Lords principles of order and instead setting themselves
up for a life unto the world. The scriptures refer to this practice as ‘priest
craft.’ Just one more historical example and then
I will summarize and conclude. Following the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph
Smith and his brother Hyrum, several parties tried to assert themselves as the new leaders
of the church. The saints, however, voted to sustain Brigham
Young and fellow members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as the church leaders. Still, this decision did not stop many others
from trying to claim leadership for themselves. Church members today, in general, know that
Sidney Rigdon sought to be appointed guardian of the church after Joseph Smith’s death. But relatively few today know that one of
the most dominant claimants of the 1840’s was a relatively new convert names James Jesse
Strang. Strang was reportedly baptized by Joseph Smith
in Nauvoo, Illinois around February of 1844. Although very few people knew Strang in the
church, after Joseph Smith’s death, the new convert claimed that he had been designated
to lead the church, by the prophet, just a few days before his death. Strang even produced a three-page letter of
appointment purportedly written by Joseph Smith on June the 18th, 1844. The letter coordinates supposed revelation
from the Lord stating that, to him, ‘James J Strang shall the gathering of the people
be, for he shall plant the state of Zion in Wisconsin and I will establish it and there
shall my people have peace and rest and shall not be moved.’ Strang also claimed to be visited by an angel
and to have unearthed and translated an ancient record. Strang tried very hard to copy Joseph Smith’s
experiences and charisma even going so far as organized his own Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints with headquarters in Voree, Wisconsin and ultimately attracting
as many as 2,000 followers, including some previously notable church members. Strang also tried to duplicate many church
practices, including Baptisms for the Dead, Endowment Ceremony, and Consecration. Eventually, however, as with most of these
movements, his faith and Strang himself was killed in 1856. Once Strang’s supposed letter of appointment
became accessible to scholars, it became abundantly clear that Strang was a fraud, a false prophet. The top half of this slide, which you see
in front of you, shows what Strang claimed to be the signature of Joseph Smith on his
appointment letter. The bottom half of the slide shows a genuine
Joseph Smith signature. Now, it does not take a handwriting expert
to figure out that the top signature is a forgery, and that Strang’s claim to have
been appointed by Joseph Smith was nothing but a bold dissention. In many ways, Strang was like many other apostates
throughout church history, who have tried to assert leadership over church members outside
the order established by the Lord. Let’s review again, in summary, what those
principles of order are. Frist, the Lord speaks to the church through
the Prophet. Second, no one can be appointed to an office
without a vote of the church. Third, no one is to receive revelation for
the church except the prophet. Next, no one is to preach or build up the
church except he be regularly ordained by the head of the church. Next, church members are not to teach their
own unauthorized doctrine. They are to teach from the scriptures. Also, church members shall observe the covenants
and church articles and teach from them as well. Finally, he that is ordained shall come in
at the gate and be properly ordained, not claiming some kind of secret ordination. Brothers and Sisters I testify to you that
the history of the church and the revelations of the Lord show clearly principles of order
that must apply in the case of individuals that want to be brought forward as equal speaking
on behalf of the church. This order has been meticulously followed
from the very first day of the church’s organization, when the Prophet Joseph Smith,
on April 6th, 1830, asked that those present for the meeting sustain him as the prophet
of the Lord, which then did. I testify to you that if we follow these principles
of order, we will not be deceived, and I leave this testimony with you in the name of Jesus
Christ, Amen. Dallin H Oaks: Now I will speak on some current applications
of the principles that have just been reviewed. Apostasy continues even today. Its two causes or manifestations are clearly
evident. The first, disobedience to the commands, is
most visible. The second manifestation of apostasy, false
prophets, is less visible but a reality nonetheless. I speak more of this. The apostle Paul taught Timothy as follows:
‘Now the spirits speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from
the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.’ This reference to ‘seducing spirits’ is
a description of the spirits of darkness that inspire false prophets to persuade some believers
to depart from the faith. The pattern is for some false prophet to claim
that the spirit has revealed to him or her that the established leaders of the church
are in error in some way and that he or she is to be the Lord’s agent to correct them. This is an obvious violation of the principles
of order Brother Turley has taught so well from the revelations. The so-called ‘new prophet’ may pursue
his or her correcting mission by a variety of means; organizing a new church, advocating
a change of doctrine, or opposing some church policy. We have seen all of these tactics and many
more in our lifetime. The content of the new message may be more
than what is true and correct, or it may be less. But it is always: ‘I have a better way than
the Lord’s current leaders.’ The process can be illustrated by these pictures. Here’s the temple, the great symbol and
manifestation of our faith. There are now more than 140 operating temples,
just one fruit of the restored gospel and of our prophetic leadership. How do we view and use the temple, and how
do we view our prophetic leadership? Here is a visual representing how we approach
or view the temple. This is symbolic of how we view the church
and its leaders. Do we see the temple or the church and its
doctrine in its entirety? Including its fruits in our lives present
and eternal, or do we search for some defect in its many parts, ignoring the magnificent,
overall structure and function and focusing on and magnifying that alleged defect to drag
ourselves and others into apostasy? Brother and sisters, there will be small defects
in any mortal structure or any mortal life, but we should never lose sight of the wonderful,
all-encompassing plan and doctrine of the lord’s church. By their fruits, not by the occasional fruit
fly, ye shall know them. Now Brother Turley and I will review some
questions we sometimes hear from persons being influenced by the teachings of false prophets. Richard E Turley: One claim that we sometimes hear is that the
church is no longer the church that was restored to the earth by prophet joseph. That it fell into apostasy and that the priesthood
keys were not passed to Brigham Young. Dallin H Oaks: {56:33} Answer– then who held them? If there are no priesthood keys then the authority
of the priesthood cannot be used upon the earth. Richard E Turley: Historically it’s very interesting to see
who received priesthood keys and ordinances before the death of the prophet Joseph Smith
and who did not. After members of the Quorum of the Twelve
Apostles served a faithful mission in the British Isles and returned to Nauvoo, the
prophet Joseph Smith gave them increasingly larger responsibilities and he also gave them
the ordinances that we now experience in the Temple. When Joseph Smith died in 1844, only a few
people comparatively had received these keys and ordinances, and therefore the pool of
potential successors was very small. On August the 8th, 1844, when the saints had
the opportunity to choose between the quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Sidney Rigdon,
whose activities had become erratic, perhaps some think because of injuries he sustained
during severe persecutions, the saints who might have been divided, instead according
to shorthand minutes we have in our possession voted overwhelmingly for Brigham Young and
the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. To me, that suggests that the spirit spoke
strongly on this occasion, and that the saints had voted overwhelmingly for Brigham Young
and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles knew where the keys went and in fact that is where
historically we know that they lay because those were the brethren who had the keys and
had the right to perform the ordinances necessary for salvation and exaltation. Dallin H. Oaks: One more point on this claim; the idea that
the established Prophet has strayed and needs to be replaced is an idea Satan has planted
in the minds of apostates from the very beginning. For example, at the time of Christ, the Savior
was challenged by those who claimed allegiance to Abraham and Moses using the teachings of
prophets past to criticize the Lord himself. Turning to another claim, the new prophet
or leader, the false prophet is receiving revelation to correct the present one. Richard E Turley: The idea that the current prophet has strayed
from the truth and needs to be corrected by a new prophet is always accompanied by that
claim that someone is receiving substitute revelations. But this goes entirely against all the rules
of order that we talked about previously. In 1912 the first presidency warned, ‘When
visions, dreams, tongues, prophecy, impressions or an extraordinary gift or inspiration, convey
something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the Church or contrary to the
decisions that its constituted authorities, latter-day saints may know that it is not
of God no matter how plausible it may appear.’ More recently, President Spencer W. Kimble
affirmed this point by saying ‘I believe that if one wants revelations enough to crave
them beyond the rightness of it, that eventually he will get his revelations but they may not
come from God. I am sure that there may be many spectacular
things performed because the devil is very responsive.’ Another claim is that the church is not teaching
what is necessary for exaltation, for example, some say that only those who see the face
of Jesus Christ in mortality will receive Celestial Glory. Dallin H. Oaks: Of course, all of the righteous desire to
see the face of our Savior, but the suggestions that this must happen in mortality is a familiar
tactic of the adversary. To identify a worthy goal, such as to achieve
exaltation, and then to use the desirability of that goal and people’s enthusiasm for
it to obscure the new means the adversary suggests to achieve it. The means are important, even vital. As the Lord said in another setting, ‘it
must needs be done in mine own way.’ Another claim we sometimes hear is that the
leaders won’t answer our doubts. Doubts. Here we need to define the difference between
doubts and questions. Questions, when asked with a sincere desire
to increase ones understanding and faith, are again encouraged. Such questions, questions we call them, are
asked with the real intent of better understanding and more fully obeying the will of the Lord. Questions are very different from doubts. Richard E Turley: Asked in faith, questions can lead to revelation. Joseph Smith received many of the revelations
now contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, and he received his first vision because he
had questions. One difference between questions asked in
faith and doubts is that questions lead to faith and to revelation whereas doubts lead
to disobedience, which in turn renders people less able to receive revelation, or in other
words, doubt is darkness. Questions asked in faith lead to light. The Lord will answer our questions but not
necessarily in a way that we want. He is omniscient, and he knows what is best
for us, better than we know what is good for ourselves. He will answer in his own time and his own
way. We know from the history of the church that
even the Prophet Joseph Smith did not always receive answers in the way he wished. On one occasion, as we see from the Doctrine
and Covenants, he sought for the Lord to know the timing of the Lord’s coming. The Lord’s answer to him, a very direct
answer, showed that the Lord was not going to give that answer to him at that time. We must be able to have faith not only in
the Lord and what he says to us but also in the Lord’s timing in answering our questions
and giving us revelations. Dallin H. Oaks: The first step in resolving questions is always
to stand as we read in Alma 1:25, ‘Stand steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments
of God.’ Richard E Turley: Another claim that we sometimes hear is that
current apostles have no right to run the affairs of the church since they do not meet
the New Testament standard of apostles because they do not testify of having seen Christ. Dallin H. Oaks: The first answer to this claim is that modern
apostles are called to be witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world, Doctrine
and Covenants 107:23. This is not to witness of a personal manifestation. To witness of the name is to witness of the
plan, the work, or mission such as the atonement and the authority or priesthood of the Lord
Jesus Christ, which an apostle who holds the keys is uniquely responsible to do. Of course apostles are also witnesses of Christ
just like all members of the Church who have the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is because the mission of the Holy Ghost
is to witness of the Father and the Son. In addition, while some early apostles and
other members of the church have had the sublime spiritual experience of seeing the Savior
and some have made a public record of this, in the circumstances of today we are counseled
not to speak of our most sacred spiritual experiences, otherwise with modern technology
that can broadcast something all over the world, a remark made in a sacred and a private
setting can be said abroad in violation of the Savior’s commandment not to cast our pearls
before swine. Here’s another claim. The church is focused on following the brethren
instead of seeking Christ. Richard E Turley: This is a preposterous claim. If you think about the period in the New Testament
following the crucifixion of the Savior, would you expect that followers of Jesus Christ
would follow someone other than the Lord’s disciples? Indeed, following someone other than the Lord’s
called servants is a sign of apostasy. As the Lord said clearly to the Prophet Joseph
Smith in the 84th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, ‘he that receiveth my servants
receiveth me.’ Furthermore in the 59th section we read ‘And
let them journey from thence preaching the word by the way, saying none other things
than that which the prophets and apostles have written, and that which is taught them
by the Comforter through the prayer of faith.’ In section 42 of the Doctrine of Covenants
the Lord says, ‘And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the
principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which
is the fullness of the gospel. And they shall observe the covenants and church
articles to do them, and these shall be their teachings, as they shall be directed by the
Spirit.’ Dallin H. Oaks: Thank you brother Turley. Brethren and Sisters we come now to the conclusion
of our presentation. When you follow false prophets, when you start
toward apostasy, you are on the wrong side. I know what it means to be on the wrong side
in another situation. I remember a time when I was president of
Brigham Young University that we were to announce the establishment of the Ezra Taft Benson
Agriculture and Food Institute. The announcement was planned to be at the
BYU farm. President Benson was in attendance. To add some human interest to the ceremony,
someone had the idea of President Benson and President Oaks, both former farm boys, engaging
in a cow-milking contest. I approved the idea, assuming there would
be two cows. But when the time came and they led us to
the sight of the contest there was only one cow, two buckets, two men, but only one cow. Now what would you do? The district news recorded the scene, and
one of their writers described my choice to go to the left side. Quote, ‘Dallin was milking the bovine from
the left side, which is a big no-no in the dairy industry. Why the wrong side? It’s easy to explain. Dallin was sharing the milking chores with
President Ezra Taft Benson of the Council of the Twelve. Now, there is nothing in the manual, but Dallin
did not fall off the turnip wagon yesterday, you know?’ The article continues, ‘When the president
of the church-owned school with the president of the council of the twelve, he wants to
be on the safe side. The safe side is the unsafe side.’ What happened? The district news explained, quote, ‘President
Oaks positioned himself on the left of the huge holstering and President Benson sat on
her right. Gingerly, the milking began. The contest had only been in progress for
a few seconds, however, when it became evident that the cow was the least enthusiastic participant. With a swift kick, she knocked over not only
President Oak’s milk bucket but also the president himself. He flipped over in a not too graceful backwards
summersault as President Benson sat on the other side of the cow chuckling at the scene.’ Here is President Benson’s reaction: (pictured)
Brothers and Sisters, don’t get on the wrong side. And now its time for us to conclude. Brother Turley, please. Richard E Turley: Brothers and Sisters, this evening we have
talked with you about the wonderful experience we have as a church and having the Book of
Mormon and how that book was preserved for our day through thousands of years by ancient
prophets and then was brought forth by the gift and power of god to the Prophet Joseph
Smith. I testify to you that if we will read and
follow the Book of Mormon we will grow in our faith and we will also grow in our faith
if we follow the current leadership of the church and those who are appointed to succeed
them as time goes on. There is no salvation or exhalation through
false prophets. The Lord has laid down patterns and principles
of order. Those principles are clearly laid out in the
scriptures available to all of us. Those scriptures make it clear how people
become leaders of the church and what is required of them to become such. When we follow those appointed leaders we
will be blessed. The scriptures and the history of the church
show very clearly that following false prophets, in the end, leads only to unhappiness. I testify that if we will follow the word
of the Lord, as found in the scriptures, and in the words of the modern prophets, directed
by the Lord Jesus Christ, that we will receive the greatest of all blessings, even peace
in this life and eternal life in the world to come. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Dallin H Oaks: Brothers and sisters- Richard E Turley Jr.
and I, from our respective points of view, have spent many weeks researching the matter
that we have presented to you visually and by the spoken word. The principles we have drawn from the scriptures
are the truth, and we know from reading ancient and modern history that the pattern of apostasy
is as clear as the patter of restoration and that the existence of false prophets, as we
have defined that term today, is as real in our day as it was when past prophets spoke
of and prophesied of false prophets in the last days. I also testify to you that the teachings the
savior has given us in his own words recorded in the New Testament and in modern revelation
through his authorized spokesman are true and they set out for us the way to avoid being
deceived by seducing spirits, to use the scriptural term, or by those who have themselves been
deceived by seducing spirits. Stand fast with the leadership of the church. I heard President Hinckley in describing a
revelation he had received concerning the building of small temples form which he will
soon benefit in this part of the world that he did not claim perfection that there was
only one perfect person who had ever lived upon this earth and even the prophets of God
were not perfect. But, as the Prophet Joseph Smith said, on
a great occasion, ‘there is no error in the teachings.’ Spoken under the influence of the spirit of
the Lord, witnessed to be true in the hearts and minds of those who have the gift of the
Holy Ghost, those teachings are the Lord’s will to his people. And I testify to you that these teachings
are true and that if we hold with and follow the current leadership of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints, we will stay on the path toward eternal life. Eternal life, our destiny, as children of
God, our eternal father, and I testify to you of these things in the name of Jesus Christ,
Amen.

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  1. Patronizing and terrifying to witness these two legal scholars using their skills in deductive reasoning and argument to manipulate and control innocent followers. It's so effective because their audience is already emotionally invested in the false narrative upon which they make their case.
    I can see them now, gleefully sitting in Oaks' office crafting this presentation just like they were preparing for a day in court. So scary.

  2. It means a feeling about the savior and I am going through a lot of pressure from the authority of getting over my spouse's death and I still love him.

  3. These poor bastards are so desperate for humor after that Darth Vader arrogance in Oak's timbre they laugh at "29 years ago when I was 29 years old." All that time wasted in useless meetings. ugh. Yah Joseph Smith wouldn't sell those golden plates- that's believable for a treasure hunter. Dum Dum Dum Dum. Shout out to Lucy Harris. A house fell on the BoM manuscript LOL this is turning into the wizard of oz. Now it's soaked in a river. Now it's given away as souvenirs. Never trust a man who says "The bottom line is this…" just a steady flow of drivel from one trite line to the next. Arguing for the writing style of the BoM as if his tween son wrote it and he's pumping him up on how great he did. It's got a complicated cast of characters. Nevertheless, Saturday Night Live could dictate a better book than the BoM in 90 days or less.

  4. Just hearing the cadence when theses old white makes makes speak, makes me have shivers down my spine. They argue points of their falsehoods repeatedly confirming that they know they are speaking BS. Truth does not need argument. It stands on it's own. I heard them quote scripture from the bible then twist its meaning over and over, to fit their narrative. Arguing, twisting plain words to fit the point, and repeating does NOT make one thing true. Just like the very foundation of the Mormon cult, and it's first leaders. It was, it is, and will remain… just as false as from the beginning. I was a Total Believing Mormon for 40 years. No more. I finally grew up and learned about reality and am incredibly glad I left.

  5. JER 23:16 This is what the LORD of Heaven’s Armies says to his people: 
    “Do not listen to these prophets when they prophesy to you, filling you with futile hopes. They are making up everything they say. They do not speak for the LORD! 
    17 They keep saying to those who despise my word, 
    ‘Don’t worry! The LORD says you will have peace!’ 
    And to those who stubbornly follow their own desires, 
    they say, ‘No harm will come your way!’ 
    18“Have any of these prophets been in the LORD’s presence to hear what he is really saying? Has even one of them cared enough to listen? 
    19 Look! The LORD’s anger bursts out like a storm, 
    a whirlwind that swirls down on the heads of the wicked. 
    20The anger of the LORD will not diminish 
    until it has finished all he has planned. 
    In the LATTER-DAYS you will understand all this very clearly. 
    21“I have not sent these prophets, 
    yet they run around claiming to speak for me. 
    I have given them no message, 
    yet they go on prophesying. 
    22 If they had stood before me and listened to me they would have spoken my words, and they would have turned my people from their evil ways and deeds. 
    25 “I have heard these prophets say, ‘Listen to the dream I had from God last night.’ And then they proceed to tell lies in my name.  
     
    26. How long will this go on? If they are prophets, they are prophets of deceit, inventing everything they say.  
     
    27 By telling these false dreams, they are trying to get my people to forget me, just as their ancestors did by worshiping the idols of Baal.   
    29 Does not my word burn like fire?” says the LORD. 
    “Is it not like a mighty hammer that smashes a rock to pieces? 
    30 “Therefore,” says the LORD, “I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from me.  
     
    31 I am against these smooth-tongued prophets who say, ‘This prophecy is from the LORD!’  
     
    32 I am against these false prophets. Their imaginary dreams are flagrant lies that lead my people into sin. I did not send or appoint them, and they have no message at all for my people. I, the LORD, have spoken!

  6. The ridiculous idea, put forth by Turley, that Joseph Smith put the original manuscript of the Bool of Mormon into the corner stone of the Nauvoo House because Joseph had allegedly obtained the Book of Mormon from a stone box, just goes to show the imaginations of the believers to sanctify everything associated with the church. Joseph Smith put the manuscript in the corner stone, simply, because putting revered documents into corner stones has been done for centuries.

  7. I'd say the majority of apostasy occurs – not because of disobedience or false prophets (as Oaks proposes) – but from members whose eyes have been opened and have seen the numerous misleading and outright deceitful lies of the church. Notice that Oaks didn't address that fact.

  8. Elder Oaks should remember that Joseph Smith once counseled that the world always (Not sometimes or occasionally) but always mistook true Prophets for false prophets and the Book of Mormon confirms that and it teaches that the false prophets always hide behind titles and the pretense of authority. Umm that should give Latter Day Saints a clue about who the true messengers of God are and those who aren't.

  9. Q:1 Church in apostasy? A: Where there is no revelation the people perisheth.. Q:2 Must a person see the face of God to receive exultation? A: No! Q:3 Leaders won't answer questions A: Either they don't know or are scared to answer honestly? Q:4 Church leaders haven't seen the face of Christ? A: NONE have confessed they have? Q:5 Church focused on leaders of the church over Christ? A: Trust in us the Lord will NOT permit us to lead you stray. Q:6 Conclusion.Don't get on the wrong side. A: (Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 15:9) Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.

  10. If you even think as a maybe that angels deliver artefacts to people which they also take back later on, then you're already fukked in the head. It's the greatest comedy show that such rubbish would be thought to even require debunking in the first place.

  11. Oaks and Turley make very sound points based on scripture. It is unfortunate that there are those who wish to make ad hominem attacks on them.

  12. Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the son of the son of the living God. He is the way, the truth and the Life. He is the resurrection and the life. He is my person savior. I repented of my sins and was born again. Jesus is my best friend. It was interesting to me that Oaks mentioned that one of the signs of apostasy is disobedience to the commandments of God and then he said he was not going to address that sign, instead, focus on the other sign of apostasy, being in disagreement with the leaders of the church. This tactic is called misdirection. It is used to take people's focus off the real issue and put it on an issue that is a product of the real issue to say; if we have a solution to the product, we have a solution to the issue. The product "of not keeping the commands of God" is false prophets. He then gave his definition of apostasy, which basically comes down to, "We are the only true prophets appointed by God to lead his people. If you disagree with us, you are an apostate." So let's take a minute and define the word apostate. An apostate is one who stands apart. Being an apostate is not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on who or what you are apostate from. I think we will all agree that being apostate from God is a bad thing, right? On the other hand, being apostate from someone who is apostate from God is good thing, right? So why is this man talking about the product of false prophets without talking about the the cause of false prophets, not keeping the commandments? Let's take a look. The minute we break any one of the commandment of God, we are apostate from God. Who has not sinned? We have all sinned. The whole work of the God is to save save us from our apostate condition from God. The process of overcoming our apostate condition from God, begins with Faith in Jesus Christ and repenting of sins and being born again. The process continues as the Lord continues to cleanse us, purify us and sanctifies us, so that he can make our callings and elections sure. Joseph Smith point out the experience o John with the angel when John was about to worship the angel and the angel told not to do it because he was a prophet the same as John and then the angel said, "Worship God for the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus." At true prophet is one who had the testimony of Jesus. Now, there are three levels of Prophecy, 1. the testimony born of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God 2. the testimony that one has been born of God through repentance and 3. the testimony that God has made his calling an election sure, the more sure word of prophecy. Joseph Smith was surely a true prophet because went through the process. Now let's look at the three visible signs of false Prophets. It is not easy to see if the people are not keeping the commandment. Most disobedience can be hidden can be hidden from the public, but there is one commandment that is very visible if it is being broken. The first visible sign of false prophets is Idolatry. A false prophet will set up a graven image for all to see. The second visible sign of a false prophet is wealth and power. The devil tempted Jesus with the wealth and power of the world. Those who control the wealth and power of the people are false prophets. It is another interesting thing that Oaks would mention the third sign of false Prophets that Jesus warned us about, wearing sheep's clothing. Sheep' clothing is wool. Jesus is saying, beware of the men wearing wool suits with smiling face, bearing false witness. The supreme example of apostasy is the Catholic church, right? There are the idols, the wealth and power, and the wool suits, right? but what about the Mormon church? 1. In 1966, David O. McKay set up a graven image, and idol, in Salt Lake city. All of the general authorities of the church agreed to setting up the idol. The current leaders of the church are in agreement with the idol. Not only that but McKay also starting putting golden idols on the tops of all the temples. There are so many idol on temple square that it could be called the Mormon Vatican. 2. All of the current leaders of the church are wealthy powerful men. 3. They are wear the wool suits, the uniform of the so called believers. In other words, you are not a true believer unless you put on the appearance of being a believer. Is Mr. Oaks a true prophet? Are any of the leaders of the Mormon church true prophets? I have listened to speeches by the general authorities of the church and for a long time, I have not heard even one bear testimony of the Jesus, of being born again or of having a personal relationship with Jesus. Their testimonies are all of the church and of Joseph Smith, making Joseph Smith a god to be worshiped. They set themselves up as prophet gods to be worshiped. Let me say again, Jesus is the way the truth and the Life. If you want to know the truth, know Jesus. All scripture is meaningless without knowing Jesus and having a personal relationship with him. The leaders of the Mormon church are hereby notified that if they do not repent of their sins and cast down the idol of Lucifer they call the Christus and all the other idols, they will be destroyed saith the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

  13. Dupe stupid fux lapping all this stuff up. Oh boy do I want to get at them and pitch it to em to get in on some high potential swampland.

  14. Did they mentioned the Book of Mormon was received by placing a stone in a hat and thus receiving God's sacred word by scrying from a stone? Should there be a problem believing in a text that came from an occultic means? Instead, what if Joseph received the precious message from a Ouija board? -Kind of the same thing. Did they mention the nearly 3900 corrections in the BOM?

    You can tell a tree by the fruit it bears. Let's see… OK; Joseph's early practice of magic, Joseph's multiple versions of his first vision, Joseph's polygamy, Joseph threatening Emma Smith (wife) with destruction if she wold not accept "celestial marriage"(polygamy), Joseph's polyandry (marring other men's wives- 11 of them), Joseph taking 14 year old wives, Joseph's failed bank & losses of peoples' savings, Joseph's false prophecies (example D&C 111 ), Joseph's self-imposing the position of a general while in Nauvoo, IL, Joseph's Masonic affiliation, and Joseph's culpability for providing the religion that Warren Jeffs followed. Those are just a few right off the top of my head.

    Wow, that seems like pretty bad fruit…..

  15. Ephesians 5:11 "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." G-g-grand nephew of Martin Harris, Dallin Oaks. https://youtu.be/260RVMO3n6I

  16. Priesthood is not–
     
    0. dominion, control, or power over others
    0. a means of giving orders without free agency
    0. title, position and wealth for personal benefit
    0. men following men and trusting in the arm of flesh
    0. becoming one with Babylon
    0. incorporating with the state and nation
    0. obeying man’s law in preference to God’s law
    0. Agdonkraut priesthood vol1

    The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “All the prophets had the Melchizedek Priesthood and were ordained by God himself.” (TPJS, p. 181) Christ was very well acquainted with his Father and would need the Higher Priesthood to begin his ministry, and he, too, would receive it directly from God.

  17. . It is the fate, apparently, of those whom God most loves that they suffer most, that they might gain the experience for which men came into this world

    .  It signifies, then, that the ordinances must be kept in the very way God has appointed; otherwise their Priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing. (Joseph Smith, TPJS, p. 169)

    Very few of them saw in that Great High Priest, the kind of virtue they wanted to see. The Priests made the temple of God into a den of thieves; they  took the widow’s money; they strained at gnats and swallowed camels. In general, they had very few qualities relevant to the office of Priest. Although Jesus was “a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” (Ps. 110:4), they could not recognize the Lord of lords.

    a false priest labors in and for the world; a true priest separates himself from it. A false priest labors under the jurisdiction of the world; the true priest labors under the direction of God.

    some men who bear the Priesthood possess the authority of God but not the attributes. They are the type to give and take orders, but they seldom reflect the inspiration to think and act for themselves. They fall into the “businessman’s” world and soon conduct the affairs of God after the manner of the merchants. They employ salesmanship, [42] advertising, good will meetings, business transactions, and all the tools of company public relations to gain their converts.

    The elect rejoice in the spiritual powers of the Priesthood; the “unelect” rejoice in the temporal powers of the corporation.

    To most Latter-day Saints today the Priesthood means status. Their Priesthood office and title have a prestigious temporal appearance, and it seems that the man with the most money is the man most blessed with a higher Priesthood position. Generally speaking, the wealthier he is, the more “qualified” he is for a promotion in the Church. Have you seen [43] very many poor Stake Presidents or poor General Authorities? It seems apparent that a fine car, a large home, and a successful business are all necessary criteria for selecting mission presidents, stake presidents, and Apostles in the Church. These temporal assets may bring respect from the rest of the world, but the Prophet Joseph said, “The world always mistook false prophets for true ones” and that the true prophets were “the most honorable men of the earth”, yet they were always “banished from society.” (TPJS, p. 206) So often poverty followed the prophets, but wealth was a partner of pride.
    I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.

  18. Without the United Order we cannot become one; without the United Order, angels cannot hold communion with us as a people. The dead cannot be raised nor Jesus come to dwell with his people.” I said, “It is enough; I am prepared to give my name as a member of the United Order tonight.” (Autobiog. of Joseph Orton, p. 22)

    Joseph Smith, quoting John the Revelator, indicated this gift is so important that every “man who has the testimony of Jesus,” is a prophet, “for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. –Revelation 29:l0th verse” (TPJS, p. 119)

    In ancient times it was thought that only a few people could be prophets. In fact, they often declared that they wanted only a certain person to be a prophet for all the people. Joseph Smith said this was a wrong concept and declared:
    . . . the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves, . . . (TPJS, pp. 237-238)

    And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And [91] Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Num. 11:25-29)

  19. These two are lawyers aka master manipulators. Well trained in the art of massaging the narrative to suite their will.
    On a lighter note, Boise must be bleeding members, I mean money otherwise they wouldn't have sent in the Calvary.

  20. Wait, I thought being on the Lord's side was standing up for the Lord no matter what, even when Anointed Leaders contradict him, as we have a lonnnng history of.
    How fitting that an "Apostle" reads the words of Jesus, "He who treasures up MY words shall not be deceived (by false prophets, ravening wolves… by their fruits…, of words, actions, "commandments" and by changing His words…)"
    And then he says we are to teach from the scriptures… Oh, really now, and how does that work? THAT would get you excommunicated since the brethren do not agree with the scriptures or the words of Jesus other than the ones they pick and choose at their smorgasboard which we are forbidden from doing but they have that old Super VIP Free Pass from Jesus for NO Accountability? (Buy their fruits…?) They don't even agree with the BoM, or each other, annnd we know why. It' s the doctrine of "Shut up and Obey!"
    Christ's Bullies. Anointed?
    This will certainly retain members who stand for Jesus…
    Sighhhh…

  21. So, in 1844 when BY took over the church he violated the authority given to the 12 in the D&C. The 12 had authority in the mission field. In the Stakes it was first the First Presidency then coequal the standing high council, the 70, and the Patriarch, this should have been Samuel Smith. Since JS no President of the church has been sustained by the Churvh before being set apart. That makes their being set apart invalid. BY then, sans authority, destroyed the God given hierarchy of the Church. A coup detat by BY and the 12. They completed this when they made Eldred G Smith Patriarch emeritus abd regused to allow the next in line to assume the office. Whe the GAs are sustained at conference one of the callings asked to sustain is "confirmed Patriarchs" this does nit allow the rightful Patriarch to the Church to vote. Coup de'tat fait accompli.

  22. NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month) is ALL ABOUT writing an entire novel in 60 days, one draft, no editing. Its impressive but not impossible.

  23. I get really confused how such a man is supposed to be dealing with historical material. For example the Book of Abraham has always been a difficult issue.When some of the papyri were obtain by the LDS church Egyptologists were able to translate them and found no references to Abraham. Are the original still missing? Why did the scribes use the symbols from the Book of Breathings to juxtapose besides the words of the Book of Abraham manuscript?

  24. Can you just imagine how much those gold plates must have weighed?? So, he just ran through the forest carrying them? I don't think so….

  25. Apparently some "plain and precious truths" were taken from the BOM also? Changed 3900 times since it was pronounced 'the most correct book on Earth.'
    The restoration of the restoration is happening right before our eyes, because the chain of prophets were "subjected to societal beliefs of their time." What?!
    We're supposed to believe God spoke to them to give us the truth, but he didn't bother correcting despicable errors in their beliefs? WASN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT?
    Magician's tricks. JS had 4 years to write the book from the time he claimed he first saw an angel. You have to BELIEVE the story that he SAW the angel, and the angel made him WAIT to start "translating," before you can use "SHOCK AND AWE' that it took him only 90 days to write it! Otherwise he admits to having the idea to write it years before he came out with it.
    Hey! my son saw a space alien that took him to his ship and gave him a shot that made him smarter! I've got Proof it's true because from the date he saw the space alien until the time he could do multiplication was two days!!

  26. I really wish they had spoken to me when I was questioning the church. It would have shortened my quest for truth by years and hastened my departure. They were not there to 'help' those with questions. They were there to separate the wicked from the sheep.

  27. Oakes spoke of how to tell a true prophet, saying by the fruits of his actions. He missed the part about how the Devil can appear as an angel of light. Oakes also conveniently avoided the Bibles litmus test of being able to tell if a prophet is real or false. (Deut. 13).

  28. Turley bangs on about how Joseph Smith "translated" the Book of Mormon, stating that Smith did it by "the power of God". What an age old piece of bullshit that is!. Turley tip toed around the peepstone in the hat story which the church has been forced to acknowledge but despise having to do so hence Turley's avoidance of that fact.

  29. The hatred spilled out by the commentors in the comments section, show there true nature as faithless fools. Sad state of a soul who kicked himself out of the kingdom because of pride. Yet, the church roles on…….your left behind in an awful state of wickedness. The men leading the church of jesus christ of ladder day saints are men of god. True and faithful.full of love.

  30. I really tried to listen to this in its entirety but the way the "historian"regurgitated the stories with such romance of fictional history was cringe worthy at best. I had to fast forward through a lot of it b/c most members not only have heard this "story" several times but can tell it verbatim. Like nails on a chalk board. They really know how to talk in circles and deflect on the important points of why they were there in the first place.🤮

  31. Wow Oaks took Revelations out of context
    Polygamy Polylandry the Blood Atonement
    Blacks couldn't have the priesthood
    Punish children cause their parents are LGBTQ. YES. All bad fruit

  32. Personally i find joes running thru the woods dodging 3 dudes way to close to the story of Hiram Abiff. The weight of the plates being debated aside, i doubt this story is even true and just another tale he told that he stole from another source he read.

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